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	<title>Comments for Public Education: Start Again</title>
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	<link>http://allnewpubliceducation.com</link>
	<description>If you could start from zero, what would public education look like?</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 14 Aug 2010 23:31:55 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on The Slow Awakening by Stephen Dill</title>
		<link>http://allnewpubliceducation.com/2010/08/05/the-slow-awakening/#comment-1026</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Dill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Aug 2010 23:31:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allnewpubliceducation.com/?p=38#comment-1026</guid>
		<description>Judi,

While I cannot point to research right this minute, I am willing to bet that every human has experienced the joy of discovering something new. The key to that joy is in self-discovery, as opposed to forced learning. The truly rich figure out how to establish and stay within an environment that provides such self-discovery throughout their lives. As our valedictorian says, our current system results in most people whose goal is to get out of the system relatively unscathed. A classic case of opportunity lost. 

Great point, Judi. Where, indeed, has the messing about gone?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Judi,</p>
<p>While I cannot point to research right this minute, I am willing to bet that every human has experienced the joy of discovering something new. The key to that joy is in self-discovery, as opposed to forced learning. The truly rich figure out how to establish and stay within an environment that provides such self-discovery throughout their lives. As our valedictorian says, our current system results in most people whose goal is to get out of the system relatively unscathed. A classic case of opportunity lost. </p>
<p>Great point, Judi. Where, indeed, has the messing about gone?</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Slow Awakening by Jon Madian</title>
		<link>http://allnewpubliceducation.com/2010/08/05/the-slow-awakening/#comment-1024</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Madian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Aug 2010 17:05:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allnewpubliceducation.com/?p=38#comment-1024</guid>
		<description>Thank you all for your &quot;spot on&quot; article and comments. I&#039;d like to suggest that this may not take 7.5 generations. The research on learning is clear; clearly we&#039;re not attending to that research. Our new technologies offer a Trojan Horse that will soon be everywhere in our knowledge industries, of which education is numero uno. Aligning learning with the three &quot;ecologies&quot; is coming. These are the ecology of the self as a bio-psycho-social being; the ecology of the community; and the ecology of the earth from which we&#039;ve emerged and on which all else relies. As we see the alignment among these three highly complex and coordinated systems we will apply ourselves to creating learning processes that more closely reflect our nature, enthusiasms, concerns and talents. Such a re-weaving of the tapestry of education would not be imaginable but for the new digital looms on which we can weave our knowledge to create and reflect greater and more refined light from and into each of us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you all for your &#8220;spot on&#8221; article and comments. I&#8217;d like to suggest that this may not take 7.5 generations. The research on learning is clear; clearly we&#8217;re not attending to that research. Our new technologies offer a Trojan Horse that will soon be everywhere in our knowledge industries, of which education is numero uno. Aligning learning with the three &#8220;ecologies&#8221; is coming. These are the ecology of the self as a bio-psycho-social being; the ecology of the community; and the ecology of the earth from which we&#8217;ve emerged and on which all else relies. As we see the alignment among these three highly complex and coordinated systems we will apply ourselves to creating learning processes that more closely reflect our nature, enthusiasms, concerns and talents. Such a re-weaving of the tapestry of education would not be imaginable but for the new digital looms on which we can weave our knowledge to create and reflect greater and more refined light from and into each of us.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Slow Awakening by Frank Ferguson</title>
		<link>http://allnewpubliceducation.com/2010/08/05/the-slow-awakening/#comment-1022</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Ferguson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Aug 2010 13:59:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allnewpubliceducation.com/?p=38#comment-1022</guid>
		<description>Indeed our present &quot;sage on the stage&quot; teacher and our one-size-fits-all textbook dominated model for instruction fail us in all the ways cited in this post and the responses.

Decades ago Dr. Donald D. Durrell, then Dean of the graduate school of education at Boston University said to me &quot;It&#039;s the output skills that count [writing, speaking] not the input skills... not a lot happen [in the way of learning] until the student goes to work.&quot; 

Another under appreciate insight is the benefit of collaborative learning.  As far back as 35A.D. Seneca the Younger observed in his letter to his pal Lucilius &quot;Docendo Discimus&quot; -- when we teach, we learn. In the late 1700s the Scot, Andrew Bell, wrote to book on the benefits of students teaching one another; in the late 1800&#039;s the French had a system of &quot;ecole mutuelle&quot; with peer-team learning, in the past 100 years we&#039;ve had Slavin at Johns Hopkins, and the Johnsons at the University of Minnesota with centers for cooperative learning, and Durrell at BU who published numerous studies on the benefits of peer team learning. 

A unifying theory underlying ALL of the above is the work of Lev Vygotsky [who died of TB in Moscow at age 38 in 1934] and whose pioneering work lay untranslated for some 40 years. Vygotsky, in his book THOUGHT AND LANGUAGE, identifies a profound connection between oral language (speech) and cognition (learning), i.e. the one talking is the one learning. Hence the power of project-based learning (lots of oral interaction), peer-team learning and cooperative learning (Durrell, Slavin, Johnson, et al.) ecole mutuelle, and, indeed, Seneca the Younger&#039;s Docendo Discimuis. 

Tomorrow&#039;s effective teachers, mentors, and learnng guides, will best serve the following generation by arranging for learning to occur, and that may, on occasion, involve &quot;teaching.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed our present &#8220;sage on the stage&#8221; teacher and our one-size-fits-all textbook dominated model for instruction fail us in all the ways cited in this post and the responses.</p>
<p>Decades ago Dr. Donald D. Durrell, then Dean of the graduate school of education at Boston University said to me &#8220;It&#8217;s the output skills that count [writing, speaking] not the input skills&#8230; not a lot happen [in the way of learning] until the student goes to work.&#8221; </p>
<p>Another under appreciate insight is the benefit of collaborative learning.  As far back as 35A.D. Seneca the Younger observed in his letter to his pal Lucilius &#8220;Docendo Discimus&#8221; &#8212; when we teach, we learn. In the late 1700s the Scot, Andrew Bell, wrote to book on the benefits of students teaching one another; in the late 1800&#8242;s the French had a system of &#8220;ecole mutuelle&#8221; with peer-team learning, in the past 100 years we&#8217;ve had Slavin at Johns Hopkins, and the Johnsons at the University of Minnesota with centers for cooperative learning, and Durrell at BU who published numerous studies on the benefits of peer team learning. </p>
<p>A unifying theory underlying ALL of the above is the work of Lev Vygotsky [who died of TB in Moscow at age 38 in 1934] and whose pioneering work lay untranslated for some 40 years. Vygotsky, in his book THOUGHT AND LANGUAGE, identifies a profound connection between oral language (speech) and cognition (learning), i.e. the one talking is the one learning. Hence the power of project-based learning (lots of oral interaction), peer-team learning and cooperative learning (Durrell, Slavin, Johnson, et al.) ecole mutuelle, and, indeed, Seneca the Younger&#8217;s Docendo Discimuis. </p>
<p>Tomorrow&#8217;s effective teachers, mentors, and learnng guides, will best serve the following generation by arranging for learning to occur, and that may, on occasion, involve &#8220;teaching.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Slow Awakening by Homeschool Ninja</title>
		<link>http://allnewpubliceducation.com/2010/08/05/the-slow-awakening/#comment-989</link>
		<dc:creator>Homeschool Ninja</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Aug 2010 00:51:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allnewpubliceducation.com/?p=38#comment-989</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Catholic Homeschooling in Delaware: The Importance of Catholic Materials...&lt;/strong&gt;

I found your entry interesting thus I&#039;ve added a Trackback to it on my weblog :)...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Catholic Homeschooling in Delaware: The Importance of Catholic Materials&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>I found your entry interesting thus I&#8217;ve added a Trackback to it on my weblog <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> &#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Solutions by &#187; Archived from Twitter .. today</title>
		<link>http://allnewpubliceducation.com/solutions/#comment-984</link>
		<dc:creator>&#187; Archived from Twitter .. today</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Aug 2010 12:17:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allnewpubliceducation.com/solutions/#comment-984</guid>
		<description>[...] You have framed the problems very eloquently &amp; touched a nerve here &#8211; http://bit.ly/NewPublicEDU@klintron np &#8211; can never tell these daysthis wordpress hack, @klintron &#8211; are you [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] You have framed the problems very eloquently &amp; touched a nerve here &#8211; <a href="http://bit.ly/NewPublicEDU@klintron" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/NewPublicEDU@klintron</a> np &#8211; can never tell these daysthis wordpress hack, @klintron &#8211; are you [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Slow Awakening by Judi Pack</title>
		<link>http://allnewpubliceducation.com/2010/08/05/the-slow-awakening/#comment-981</link>
		<dc:creator>Judi Pack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Aug 2010 20:47:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allnewpubliceducation.com/?p=38#comment-981</guid>
		<description>Thanks for writing this. I share your frustration and desire for a whole new way of thinking about education--and yes, it will be a 150 project! We need a national dialogue about what education should look like and that doesn&#039;t seem likely, given the media and the powers that be--the same old players. However, I am encouraged by the numbers of organizations, unschoolers, and Erica Goldson&#039;s out there. The internet has helped us learn about each other and share ideas and opinions. It&#039;s difficult to believe that an educational system like ours can continue like this into the future. 

I am interested in the ideas you expressed above and want to add that we need to include a way to foster working and learning together and to be sure everyone has the opportunity to be introduced to some of the best minds of the past and present, especially through literature. When we talk about children having more control over their own learning, most people think we&#039;re talking about learning absent mentors, classical/cultural artifacts, and self discipline. I don&#039;t think I&#039;m as romantic as Rousseau but I strongly believe that all human beings feel both thrilled and satisfied when learning. And of course I&#039;m referring to Piaget&#039;s definition of learning and not school &quot;learning.&quot; 

David Hawkins referred to &quot;messing about&quot; in science and how important it is that children (and adults) have lots of time to mess about with materials before they are introduced to any scientific information. That they have the opportunity to play, experiment and theorize as they mess with water, sand, tubes, etc. I think this is true in all domains and disciplines. 

Where is the messing about? It&#039;s all but disappeared.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for writing this. I share your frustration and desire for a whole new way of thinking about education&#8211;and yes, it will be a 150 project! We need a national dialogue about what education should look like and that doesn&#8217;t seem likely, given the media and the powers that be&#8211;the same old players. However, I am encouraged by the numbers of organizations, unschoolers, and Erica Goldson&#8217;s out there. The internet has helped us learn about each other and share ideas and opinions. It&#8217;s difficult to believe that an educational system like ours can continue like this into the future. </p>
<p>I am interested in the ideas you expressed above and want to add that we need to include a way to foster working and learning together and to be sure everyone has the opportunity to be introduced to some of the best minds of the past and present, especially through literature. When we talk about children having more control over their own learning, most people think we&#8217;re talking about learning absent mentors, classical/cultural artifacts, and self discipline. I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;m as romantic as Rousseau but I strongly believe that all human beings feel both thrilled and satisfied when learning. And of course I&#8217;m referring to Piaget&#8217;s definition of learning and not school &#8220;learning.&#8221; </p>
<p>David Hawkins referred to &#8220;messing about&#8221; in science and how important it is that children (and adults) have lots of time to mess about with materials before they are introduced to any scientific information. That they have the opportunity to play, experiment and theorize as they mess with water, sand, tubes, etc. I think this is true in all domains and disciplines. </p>
<p>Where is the messing about? It&#8217;s all but disappeared.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Solutions by Tom Haynes</title>
		<link>http://allnewpubliceducation.com/solutions/#comment-800</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Haynes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jun 2010 01:19:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allnewpubliceducation.com/solutions/#comment-800</guid>
		<description>SRD,

You&#039;re much deeper thinker than poor old me, but what are the underlying assumptions about people in general that would support the type or reform you are discussing?

In my observations there is a 85/15 rule.  15% of the population will take the responsibility to get involved to the point you&#039;re talking about. The other 85% will have to be constantly pushed, cajoled or otherwise motivated. 85% of the population doesn&#039;t want to think about or deal withe the effort required to make the kind of change you&#039;re describing.  So how do you move such a dramatic change to the education system forward?  

One other aspect of your discussion makes me uncomfortable and maybe I just don&#039;t understand your perspective.  &quot;Cultural learning would be homogenized&quot;? I&#039;m not sure I would want that.  So I will need to hear more.

You also describe some behavioral issues in with the educational discussion. Are you saying changing the educational method is required to affect change in young adults so that they understand and accept responsibility for raising their children?   My experience is a little different. I see the youngest parents accepting and showing more responsibility in raising their children properly from a behavioral and cultural perspective.  It may be a regional thing as I have spent considerable time in the south and mid-west and see a more conservative social norm than is exhibited in the northeast or the the west coast or is reported since the mainstream media is dominated from those two regions.

Anyway its an interesting discussion even though I&#039;m not as eloquent as yourself or Dan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SRD,</p>
<p>You&#8217;re much deeper thinker than poor old me, but what are the underlying assumptions about people in general that would support the type or reform you are discussing?</p>
<p>In my observations there is a 85/15 rule.  15% of the population will take the responsibility to get involved to the point you&#8217;re talking about. The other 85% will have to be constantly pushed, cajoled or otherwise motivated. 85% of the population doesn&#8217;t want to think about or deal withe the effort required to make the kind of change you&#8217;re describing.  So how do you move such a dramatic change to the education system forward?  </p>
<p>One other aspect of your discussion makes me uncomfortable and maybe I just don&#8217;t understand your perspective.  &#8220;Cultural learning would be homogenized&#8221;? I&#8217;m not sure I would want that.  So I will need to hear more.</p>
<p>You also describe some behavioral issues in with the educational discussion. Are you saying changing the educational method is required to affect change in young adults so that they understand and accept responsibility for raising their children?   My experience is a little different. I see the youngest parents accepting and showing more responsibility in raising their children properly from a behavioral and cultural perspective.  It may be a regional thing as I have spent considerable time in the south and mid-west and see a more conservative social norm than is exhibited in the northeast or the the west coast or is reported since the mainstream media is dominated from those two regions.</p>
<p>Anyway its an interesting discussion even though I&#8217;m not as eloquent as yourself or Dan.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Solutions by Stephen Dill</title>
		<link>http://allnewpubliceducation.com/solutions/#comment-793</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Dill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jun 2010 18:07:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allnewpubliceducation.com/solutions/#comment-793</guid>
		<description>We&#039;re on the same page, Glenn! Many thanks for the link to the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/end-them-don’t-mend-them&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;essay&lt;/a&gt;. PJ&#039;s humor aside, the numbers he cites back the simple observation I sent to the President in a letter: &quot;For so many reasons well documented elsewhere, public education today is a highly unpredictable system. We cannot expect consistent results in one school over 5 years, much less the entire nation going forward. When a system is broken it is a waste of time to focus on bandages if no one is developing a cure for the cause. Can we entertain a two-pronged approach that maintains buildings and programs for a little while longer while another team starts from square one?&quot;

In particular, I appreciate O&#039;Rourke&#039;s observation that public education provided a crucial transition path out of the chaotic mix of cultures and education that we as a nation began with. But that is not the challenge of education now, nor is it the method best tuned to the lifestyles present and the technology available. I smiled at his reference to hiring Aritstotle, as I often use this image of a gathering of students around a sage, wise, loving mentor under trees on a mountainside, in a public library, or in a corporate data center when trying to help people see what I see for education of the future. Note that such a model of education is a free market, performance-driven model capable of being fine-tuned to the learning styles and needs of of the pupils, as well as the expertise of the teacher. 

The implications of your statement, &quot;... desirable for each citizen to be an active part of the education system&quot; bear some discussion. It&#039;s easy to think that what you are saying is akin to parent involvement in schools, as simple as chaperoning a field trip, or as intensive as committing 2 hours in the classroom per week. But that is not what I hear when I read that, and I suspect you do not either. I am not fully convinced of this, but very close to believing that public education is not a right. It&#039;s a personal obligation. The access to tools (public broadband), societal understanding and support, and buy-in of companies of all sizes would have to happen first, but the perception of education as a public right somehow guaranteed by the Constitution is what leads repeatedly back to all the ills of the current system. How can a government at any level stand behind a system that is 400 million unique educational objectives, all on different time schedules, all with different standards for comprehension and completion? Or fund such a system if the sources of information and training (i.e. the end point of the money trail) are distributed throughout the globe? 

The benefits of the new system—whatever it becomes—will be measured not in academic criteria, but in peace, self fulfillment, understanding, collaboration, and plurality. These are the criteria of global citizens, the only true end point of any education system. Do you agree?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;re on the same page, Glenn! Many thanks for the link to the <a href="http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/end-them-don’t-mend-them" rel="nofollow">essay</a>. PJ&#8217;s humor aside, the numbers he cites back the simple observation I sent to the President in a letter: &#8220;For so many reasons well documented elsewhere, public education today is a highly unpredictable system. We cannot expect consistent results in one school over 5 years, much less the entire nation going forward. When a system is broken it is a waste of time to focus on bandages if no one is developing a cure for the cause. Can we entertain a two-pronged approach that maintains buildings and programs for a little while longer while another team starts from square one?&#8221;</p>
<p>In particular, I appreciate O&#8217;Rourke&#8217;s observation that public education provided a crucial transition path out of the chaotic mix of cultures and education that we as a nation began with. But that is not the challenge of education now, nor is it the method best tuned to the lifestyles present and the technology available. I smiled at his reference to hiring Aritstotle, as I often use this image of a gathering of students around a sage, wise, loving mentor under trees on a mountainside, in a public library, or in a corporate data center when trying to help people see what I see for education of the future. Note that such a model of education is a free market, performance-driven model capable of being fine-tuned to the learning styles and needs of of the pupils, as well as the expertise of the teacher. </p>
<p>The implications of your statement, &#8220;&#8230; desirable for each citizen to be an active part of the education system&#8221; bear some discussion. It&#8217;s easy to think that what you are saying is akin to parent involvement in schools, as simple as chaperoning a field trip, or as intensive as committing 2 hours in the classroom per week. But that is not what I hear when I read that, and I suspect you do not either. I am not fully convinced of this, but very close to believing that public education is not a right. It&#8217;s a personal obligation. The access to tools (public broadband), societal understanding and support, and buy-in of companies of all sizes would have to happen first, but the perception of education as a public right somehow guaranteed by the Constitution is what leads repeatedly back to all the ills of the current system. How can a government at any level stand behind a system that is 400 million unique educational objectives, all on different time schedules, all with different standards for comprehension and completion? Or fund such a system if the sources of information and training (i.e. the end point of the money trail) are distributed throughout the globe? </p>
<p>The benefits of the new system—whatever it becomes—will be measured not in academic criteria, but in peace, self fulfillment, understanding, collaboration, and plurality. These are the criteria of global citizens, the only true end point of any education system. Do you agree?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Solutions by danspira</title>
		<link>http://allnewpubliceducation.com/solutions/#comment-791</link>
		<dc:creator>danspira</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jun 2010 15:03:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allnewpubliceducation.com/solutions/#comment-791</guid>
		<description>Thank you for sharing this great comment / article, Warren... it was a real eye-opener!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for sharing this great comment / article, Warren&#8230; it was a real eye-opener!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Solutions by End Them, Don&#8217;t Mend Them: True Cost of PK-12 Education &#171; Meme Menagerie</title>
		<link>http://allnewpubliceducation.com/solutions/#comment-790</link>
		<dc:creator>End Them, Don&#8217;t Mend Them: True Cost of PK-12 Education &#171; Meme Menagerie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jun 2010 15:02:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allnewpubliceducation.com/solutions/#comment-790</guid>
		<description>[...] Hat tip to Glenn Warren / Stephen Dill, on this discussion. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Hat tip to Glenn Warren / Stephen Dill, on this discussion. [...]</p>
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